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Koshkin 10 hours ago [-]
Is a widget a monad? Anyway, the examples in this tutorial are another proof that Haskell is the best imperative language!
black_knight 8 hours ago [-]
It really is a great imperative langue! The IO monad is basically a better C, if you know how to wield the FFI.
_jackdk_ 3 hours ago [-]
It really is funny how you go through learning all these fantastic abstractions, and then at the end your line-of-business code ends up looking a lot like it always did. But expecting your data structures and control-flow functions to behave according to laws makes things so much more predictable and easier to wrangle.
Vosporos 8 hours ago [-]
Widget is not quite a Monad, in this instance it's a newtype around a pointer and classes that mimic GTK's own class hierarchy.
seba_dos1 14 hours ago [-]
Replace `backdrop-filter` on `.backdrop::after` with `filter` on `.backdrop picture` for a free scrolling performance boost.
nh2 13 hours ago [-]
Indeed the scrolling performance is awful, makes reading it less enjoyable, especially when the topic is GUIs!
grimgrin 11 hours ago [-]
desktop and mobile browsers have a reader mode icon you can click. it is useful for 1) this 2) website blocking fully loaded content with some paywall popup 3) and more!
click it for a better time
nh2 6 hours ago [-]
"better time" = the syntax highlighting is gone and the code is no longer monospace?
Anyway, the website seems to be fixed now, nice!
alpinisme 4 hours ago [-]
Syntax highlighting does go, but at least on iOS the reader still uses a monospace font for the code blocks.
shevy-java 11 hours ago [-]
Are people still using gtk?
I started to learn it back then via ruby-gtk2. It was not
the best experience but I learned several key things
pertaining to widgets and the UI. Then came gtk3; it was
in some ways worse than GTK2, but it also brought a few
improvements such as the partial CSS support. I always
miss that when I use e. g. wxwidget.
Then came GTK4 though and things changed. Tons of old
things broke or no longer worked. Simple things such as
main_window_widget.move(0, 0) for top-left positioning
(I added an alias to this, .top_left in ruby and that
worked nicely); there are work-arounds to get the old
behaviour, but this is just one example of so many more
things that were eliminated. GTK4 is a GNOMEy-toolkit
and GTK5 will be even worse since it will be wayland-only.
"Interacting" with the GNOMEy-GTK devs is a total waste
of time and I am hardly the only one who had that
experience. For GNOMEys it may be a useful platform,
but GTK no longer is a general toolkit really, despite
claims by the current GTK devs otherwise. Why would
we non-GNOMEys want to keep GTK on life support? There
really needs to be a toolkit that can work in a much
more de-centralized way. Sadly I also don't have a good
idea here, since funding is an issue and GUIs seem to
have taken a huge hit ever since the world wide web
became dominating.
gen2brain 10 hours ago [-]
Well, it is what was always considered to be a default toolkit. Sure, I like Qt and prefer such apps but you got a have the GTK installed anyway. It was always difficult to have general toolkit with it when you depend on dozens of dependencies, collection of libraries, not big fat libraries like in Qt, that you can deploy.
GTK4 changed a lot though, like they do not even try anymore, deprecated font dialog because that is better done with XDG portals, but such thing does not even exist. How will that work on macOS and Windows, it cannot? Or what they did with the menus. Toolkits should be user oriented and should not have vision, it just needs to work and provide controls, events, etc., you cannot even position windows in macOS and Windows with GTK4, that is not toolkit that works for users.
I am working on the IUP fork here https://github.com/gen2brain/iup-go , one toolkit to handle them all, and I did my best for GTK4 backend, but from 14 drivers/backends I worked on, it was the worst experience and I had to fight battles with it.
nine_k 7 hours ago [-]
GTK2 tried to be more general-purpose, while GTK4 is more about serving the vision of Gnome the platform.
I hope that, if desktop / laptop as a platform remains, there will appear an interpreted, platform-independent toolkit / language for GUI specifically, along the lines of Tk, or QML, but much lighter weight than HTML+CSS.
skavi 2 hours ago [-]
I will continue using GTK until QT decides to stop being ugly (by default).
rubymamis 31 minutes ago [-]
Qt is ugly only when you don't have aesthetical taste. Here are my Qt apps:
GTK3 has nice, conventional looking interfaces. Developing for it always felt insane, but the advent of AI has completely removed the friction so I've had Claude build me quite a few apps using it because I like the look and it's easy to navigate.
pluc 12 hours ago [-]
> import GI.Awd qualified as Adw
please tell me that's a typo
8 hours ago [-]
tensegrist 12 hours ago [-]
possibly enabled by lsp (Adw.foo -> "foo found in GI.Awd, import it with the name you used?")
pluc 12 hours ago [-]
yeah seems to be a typo, it is "Adw" and not "Awd", phew
i've been writing Haskell GUIs for a few years and mostly stick to react-banana or reflex because wiring up gtk-gi signals manually gets messy fast. The Elm architecture pattern here looks clean on paper but I'm curious how you handle async events from the widget tree without ending up in callback hell. Did you end up wrapping all GI callbacks in a channel that feeds into your update loop?
_jackdk_ 3 hours ago [-]
I haven't seen anyone write about wiring FRP systems to traditional GUI toolkits. Do you have a blog?
freedomben 11 hours ago [-]
Is Haskell in this case just binding a local HTTP port that users then hit with the browser? Or is it like a Tauri/Electron type of thing?
codebje 6 hours ago [-]
It's a native desktop app, so none of the above.
mintik 12 hours ago [-]
[dead]
beanjuiceII 13 hours ago [-]
bro takes 2 years to make a todo list
drnick1 13 hours ago [-]
Just keep in mind that some people like me avoid Haskell and the huge package mess it causes on Linux. Pandoc is infamous for that. Just stick to C++.
black_knight 8 hours ago [-]
My Haskell experience on NixOS is wonderful!
I think it depends on your district. On some distros (looking at you arch!) I think GHCup and keeping things in /home and out of your system package manager is the better approach.
That said, I never had issues with Pandoc on any distribution. But I have struggled with Pandoc extensions, before I got NixOS (and flakes).
rgoulter 5 hours ago [-]
On the one hand, NixOS can have a steep learning curve. (Although if you're willing to use LLM coding agents, I bet "steep learning curve" turns into "be curious and ask the LLM how it works").
On the other, I bet anyone curious about Haskell would love NixOS.
In regards to Haskell not being trouble, though: I'm not too familiar, but I thought stackage & the 'stack' tool would ease over any pain.
kccqzy 12 hours ago [-]
Does your distro not statically link Haskell libraries the way it’s meant to? Installing pandoc only requires libgmp.
Vosporos 13 hours ago [-]
That is entirely your distribution's fault. ArchLinux has a user-hostile packaging approach which I do not experience in Fedora.
klez 12 hours ago [-]
What does Arch do in particular to cause a mess? It's been a hot minute since I last used it and surely didn't use pandoc back then.
nimih 11 hours ago [-]
Haskell packages in arch are dynamically, rather than statically, linked, which pulls in a large amount of transitive dependencies (reportedly in the neighborhood of a gigabyte). The maintainer has a pretty reasonable (to my eyes) explanation[1] as to why this is the case, but admittedly if I were an arch user I'd probably find it a bit annoying.
They build and link all Haskell libraries dynamically.
Ambolia 12 hours ago [-]
I completely avoid any haskell package in Arch and just build it with Stack, it's usually simple.
ivanjermakov 9 hours ago [-]
Arch Linux approach to python/haskell packaging is a great case study of what not to do...
rmunn 3 hours ago [-]
Can confirm, every time I run `pacman -Syu` and see a hundred `haskell-foo` packages being updated I think "Oh yeah, those are all dependencies of that one app I still use. Got to remember to find an alternative, then I can stop getting lost in a maze of twisty little packages, all different." But I never do remember to switch away from that app.
Vosporos 7 hours ago [-]
Quite right, indeed
ivanjermakov 6 hours ago [-]
It even puts pressure on Linux package managers to support special mode where packages are handled by pacman intead.
click it for a better time
Anyway, the website seems to be fixed now, nice!
I started to learn it back then via ruby-gtk2. It was not the best experience but I learned several key things pertaining to widgets and the UI. Then came gtk3; it was in some ways worse than GTK2, but it also brought a few improvements such as the partial CSS support. I always miss that when I use e. g. wxwidget.
Then came GTK4 though and things changed. Tons of old things broke or no longer worked. Simple things such as main_window_widget.move(0, 0) for top-left positioning (I added an alias to this, .top_left in ruby and that worked nicely); there are work-arounds to get the old behaviour, but this is just one example of so many more things that were eliminated. GTK4 is a GNOMEy-toolkit and GTK5 will be even worse since it will be wayland-only.
"Interacting" with the GNOMEy-GTK devs is a total waste of time and I am hardly the only one who had that experience. For GNOMEys it may be a useful platform, but GTK no longer is a general toolkit really, despite claims by the current GTK devs otherwise. Why would we non-GNOMEys want to keep GTK on life support? There really needs to be a toolkit that can work in a much more de-centralized way. Sadly I also don't have a good idea here, since funding is an issue and GUIs seem to have taken a huge hit ever since the world wide web became dominating.
GTK4 changed a lot though, like they do not even try anymore, deprecated font dialog because that is better done with XDG portals, but such thing does not even exist. How will that work on macOS and Windows, it cannot? Or what they did with the menus. Toolkits should be user oriented and should not have vision, it just needs to work and provide controls, events, etc., you cannot even position windows in macOS and Windows with GTK4, that is not toolkit that works for users.
I am working on the IUP fork here https://github.com/gen2brain/iup-go , one toolkit to handle them all, and I did my best for GTK4 backend, but from 14 drivers/backends I worked on, it was the worst experience and I had to fight battles with it.
I hope that, if desktop / laptop as a platform remains, there will appear an interpreted, platform-independent toolkit / language for GUI specifically, along the lines of Tk, or QML, but much lighter weight than HTML+CSS.
https://www.get-vox.com/
https://www.get-notes.com/
Manifestly yes. There's even a list of GTK4/Adwaita apps available here: https://arewelibadwaitayet.com/
please tell me that's a typo
https://hackage.haskell.org/package/gi-adwaita
I think it depends on your district. On some distros (looking at you arch!) I think GHCup and keeping things in /home and out of your system package manager is the better approach.
That said, I never had issues with Pandoc on any distribution. But I have struggled with Pandoc extensions, before I got NixOS (and flakes).
On the other, I bet anyone curious about Haskell would love NixOS.
In regards to Haskell not being trouble, though: I'm not too familiar, but I thought stackage & the 'stack' tool would ease over any pain.
[1] https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/9emwtu/comment/e5qss...